Tanking for Dummies


There is mischief afoot
January 27, 2010, 3:19 pm
Filed under: Rants | Tags: , , ,

By which I mean this:

Ghostcrawler

Protection damage in 3.3.2
The damage you’re going to do depends a lot on your gear, raid buffs and personal style. But I think these are in the ballpark for an Icecrown 25 guild.

Shield Slam — hits for maybe 3500.
Revenge — hits for maybe 3000.
Devastate — hits for maybe 2000.

Over the course of a raid, Shield Slam and Devastate might do about the same total damage, with Revenge doing 50% of that. (In other words, if we ignore all other abilities, you’d have a pie chart with a 40%, 40%, and 20% slice, though Revenge can be pretty variable.) So at first glance, you might imagine a world in which Devastate eclipses all other abilities. But let’s consider them in more detail. You’re probably using Shield Slam half as often as you’re hitting Devastate because of the cooldown. Are you going to give up that much damage packaged into one GCD? Now Revenge on the other hand might be a contender for another Devastate GCD, but consider the enormous rage bargain that is Revenge, even that doesn’t seem like a big concern.  (Source)

I’m not sure why, but this really pisses me off, because my numbers don’t look like that.  Tarsus is much more like:

Shield Slam — hits for maybe 2500.
Revenge — hits for maybe 2900.
Devastate — hits for maybe 1900.

Now, the Revenge and Devastate numbers are off by 100, I can handle that.  That Shield Slam number, that – THAT gets under my skin, especially because it’s Shield Slam that is getting the nerf-bat.  I wasn’t precisely riled up about the nerf before, but now I’m feeling the itch.

So, I have to ask, what the hell is wrong with poor Tarsus?  Is he some weird mutant that just can’t get his Shield Slam up?  I don’t precisely stack block, so maybe I shouldn’t be complaining, but come on here – I’m 1000 under where I “should be” according to the crab.  It’s not like I’m some strangely geared aberration.

Serious WTF here on my part.  I have to wonder where these numbers come from.  Maybe the mystic land where Prot Warriors are overpowered or some crap.

On a side note, updates are being sparse because of real life issues impacting when I have time to write.  These are good sorts of real life issues, so nothing to worry about, but they are time consuming so apologies if I keep missing regularly scheduled posts as has been happening.


10 Comments so far
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If it makes you feel better, I just checked our last ICC-10 WoL, and my average Shield Slam is 2566, with the average crit sitting at 5.2k. So I am about as off as you are. I think you’d pretty much have to stack SBV or strength to get the chunky SS he describes. Meh.

Comment by Kadomi

GC must be smoking PCP. I’ve taken revenge out of my rotation and untalented it, and tbh if the proposed changes go through I won’t mind. However, my revenge only hits as hard as he says with full melee buffs, and SS doesn’t ever hit that hard noncrit. Maybe 3k, 3200 noncrit with shield block up, but thats only 25% of the time on average.

Comment by Dread

I just looked at the logs for my own recent trip to ICC 10. Here are the results, averaged over hits, crits and blocks:
Shield Slam – 2748
Devastate – 2016
Revenge – 2687

I think Ghostcrawler’s numbers are a little odd. I would like to know how he arrived at them.

For example, I’m somewhat confused why my average Devastate is so high relative to the others, at least as compared to GC’s expected values. I am using Titanguard, 1.6 speed weapon, which I believe is a fairly typical tanking sword. Based on the differences between my current numbers and GC’s expected ones, it seems that SS should be getting a buff, not a nerf.

Interestingly, my SS/Dev/Rev damage breaks down very nearly into the 40/40/20 proportion mentioned in the post. I am not sure what this suggests when considered with my earlier point. The rotation I use is the standard one I find others writing about in places like Tankspot.

I think the biggest problem with this change is that it isn’t ‘fun’. Soon, all three of these abilities will do roughly the same damage. There will be minor differences, like Revenge being better in low-rage situations and SS producing more threat, but I think that the decisions a tank has to make will be less interesting and will matter less. A tank will probably be able to hold aggro in many situations simply by mashing Devastate and Heroic Strike. That seems like a very boring way to play a class that can be incredibly fun and reactive.

Comment by lujanera

I just looked at our rotface kill from Tuesday:

SS – 3311
Dev – 2242
Rev – 2791

That includes Hit, Crit, Blocked, Parry, Miss

If you click my name I have my armory linked. I am wearing nearly the same gear (Got better pants though, previously I had the 10 man pants from Saurfang, and I was using my 2nd spec on that fight, tanking rotface obviously.

Comment by Kobeathris

Just checked my numbers from our Blood Prince Council wipefest last night, exact same gear as I have on in the armory now, and again, my second spec:

SS – 3586
Dev – 2262
Rev – 2952

The odd thing about that parse though, is that I am hit capped at the moment, so I have no misses on those attempts, but I also have no Dodges or parrys, and I am pretty low on expertise right now, so chalk that up to weird fight mechanics I guess.

Comment by Kobeathris

Numbers were wrong, the parse was so wide I just didn’t see the dodges and parries, with those factored in, it goes to:

SS – 3335
Dev – 2077
Rev – 2716

Comment by Kobeathris

Corrections aside, you don’t have too much deviation. Maybe the extra damage is coming from the differences in our AP from armor?

Comment by Tarsus

Shield Slam (supposedly) doesn’t scale off of AP though, it scales off of Block Value. I have more Strength, and I use Titanium plating, but your shield has more block value, so I think that is largely a wash.

We both use Glyph of blocking, so that’s a wash as well.

My shield slam is a macro
/cast shield slam
/cast shield block

So I have 100% more block value as often as possible, are you doing the same? Honestly, thats about the only thing I can figure would result in that big of a difference unless either shield slam doesn’t work the way it is supposed to (which I doubt), or you aren’t including crits in your memory.

Comment by Kobeathris

Just for the sake of completeness, 10 man Rotface from last night:

SS – 3165
Dev – 2149
Rev – 2400

Comment by Kobeathris

This was without imp revenge, which is why those numbers are so much lower

Comment by Kobeathris




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