Tanking for Dummies

Devistate is all better now
October 16, 2009, 12:01 am
Filed under: Gear, Strategy, Talents | Tags: , , ,

I want to point more tanks over at Kadomi’s post from Tuesday concerning warrior ability use priority.  It is a great summation of the information gleaned from this TankSpot thread.  Make sure you read both the comments on Kadomi’s post and the responses to the thread, as there is significant dispute (which means time for real in game testing!)

In essence, this is all fall-out from this change in patch 3.2.0:

  • Devastate: Weapon damage and bonus per Sunder Armor on the target increased by 100%. This ability now requires a shield to be equipped.

This obviously shakes up some things I’ve been doing, making me revisit a few assumptions – and that’s good.  Needless to say, I need to put some serious thought into what to do to here.  In the interests of science then, let me share this slice of cow brain with you.  Maybe it will be helpful if you are doing your own tests.

  • I want to try Glyph of Devastate, but I like my current glyphs of Vigilance, Heroic Strike, and Blocking.  I feel like the logical choice for the swap out is Heroic Strike because I’m not precisely hurting on rage.  My role lead says I need to work on my leading threat in any case, so this is probably something I should look at anyway.
  • If it turns out to be true that Revenge is so much lower on the priority scale, should I take that one remaining point in Improved Revenge and put it somewhere else?  If so, where?  Cruelty?  Puncture?
  • I’m using a pretty fast weapon right now (1.6 Speed).  If Devastate lags behind now, is there a slower weapon currently in game that would change the equation.  I’m thinking the Burnished Quel’Serrar (2.0 Speed), but also potential future weapons in Icecrown.  What’s the slowest speed on a 1-hander… 2.8?

Thanks to Axiom switching over to World of Logs, I have a pretty good base-line of numbers to test against.  Heroic Northrend Beasts is still kicking our butts – so anything I can do to boost effectiveness my little part of helping on progression.

Any feed back from fellow tanks who have tested these changes in the field is, of course, appreciated.


6 Comments so far
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The Glyph of Vigilance is of debatable usefulness, I would argue that you should drop the Vigilance glyph for Devastate (and just drop Heroic Strike in any case, it maths to about 2.5 rage less per Heroic Strike for an average 25% crit rate [buffed]). The Devastate glyph also assists 5-stack Sunder uptime. I really, really recommend it (nice for soloing too).

Improved Revenge is still a great use of talent points for threat better than Cruelty (and Puncture is an OT talent, all tanks in ToC are MT IMO).

For ToC I use the glyphs of Shield Wall, Devastate and Last Stand, with 15/3/53 and clear about 2.2k dps with no threat issues.

Comment by Ablimoth

(1.05 * (0.95 * {([weapon dps] + [ap]/14)*[weapon speed] + 202 * 5)

Re: Different weapons & Devastate damage, plug your ap, weapon dps & weapon speed into this to determine your damage per non-crit, so Burnished Quel-Serrar will hit for (with 5kap) 2112 damage per hit, an increase of 400 damage from Last Laugh. (Although Burnished Quel-Serrar is a crap, crap MT weapon cos of the unreliable proc and 2.00 speed).

Comment by Ablimoth

I actually tried the glyph of devastate last night (instead of heroic strike) and I’m liking it so far. As well as letting you ramp up threat a bit more quickly, it’s great when there are adds around and you can stack the sunders up twice as far for the dps.

Like you, I haven’t had issues with rage for awhile.

Comment by spinks

I’ve used Glyph of Devastate for a while and getting the Sunders up quickly is a huge boost. We are melee DPS heavy in our 10-mans at times, so it pushes my threat and their DPS. I would probably drop Heroic Strike too.

As for tests, I wish WoL had a TPS parser like this old TPS parser for WWS files. I would love to see that. I haven’t dropped using Revenge, and I am certainly not an advocate of turning into a mindless Devastate spammer.

Compared to paladin tanks, I still think we have to work harder for our threat.

Comment by kadomi

@Ablimoth – I will think about your glyph selection. At the moment, I am not sure I have any use for the reduced cooldowns for Last Stand and Shield Wall. I’m an off-tank, and there’s just not that many fights in ToC that need that, if any. Also, could you clarify what you mean when you say Quel is bad for a MT? Your theory-speak went a bit further than my ability to parse.

@Spinks – I did as well. There is another warrior tank in my raid also with the Devastate Glyph and this makes things a bit more difficult to sense when it comes to the effect. There’s a few fights where we’re on separate targets that I’m looking at though.

@kadomi- I’m with you there. What I currently use is actually the performance logs of certain high DPS/threat members of the raid. If they can do more DPS without a notable change in their gear, that probably means my over-all threat is higher.

Comment by Tarsus

My comment about the glyphs is that there is no ‘off-tank’ in the traditional sense in ToC. That is, the off tank is doing ‘main-tank work’.

In Northrend Beasts, the OT swaps Gormok with the MT, then tanks a boss that is just as hard as the MT’s boss, then Icehowl! Lord Jarraxus the OT runs about (<3 Warbringer) to pick up a million mobs which hit like a truck (and IMO has a harder time than the MT). Faction Champions are Faction Champions. The Twin Valkyrs the OT tanks a boss that is as hard hitting as the MT. Anub'Arak the OT either specs & gears for passive unhittability or tanks 2 mobs that combined + their debuffs hit for incredible damage. I think that (Jarraxus aside) the OT needs the same short timer defensive CD's as the MT & thus should glyph/spec for them. I also really, REALLY like the mental change from "it's an oh-shit button" to "it'll be up again soon anyways", it really lets you use it much, much more frequently.

Re: Quel, it has 2 flaws which make it unsuitable for a Warrior MT (half ok for a Paladin as they do not have the second issue).

The first is that you can't rely on it to hit 540 defense because the proc is not active 100% of the time. It's a nice proc, but not reliable enough.

The second is because of the massive amount of threat and damage generated by Heroic Strike. Assuming you're in an infinite rage situation (and we all are given how hard bosses hit), using Quel instead of a 1.6 speed weapon (Last Laugh for eg.) means we have 20% less Heroic Strikes, that is 20% less threat from our main threat generation ability. Quel is too slow for a Warrior MT (I'm eyeing off with our Rogue for one of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46996 or one of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47814 because of the speed difference with my 1.6 weapon. I'll get off 6% more Heroic Strikes. I wouldn't take it from a dps though because that would be unfair).

Comment by Ablimoth

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